nspark
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I am soon to fit my own kitchen. I have been “picking” the brains of my kitchen
supplier for kitchen fitting tips. I have since found this forum which is of great use.
One of the tips I was given is that when they fit electrical sockets for appliances, they are mounted is an ajacent base unit.
I would like to point out that under part P of the building regs, sockets can be fitted under worktops, but MUST be fitted to the fabric of the building and not the workunits. Also
cooker control switches must be fitted above the worktop. Sockets should be fitted at least 150mm above the worktop surface to prevent damage to cables.
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timfoley
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Thank you nspark.
Can you highlight which paragraph this is detailed in?
The alternative, if this is the case, is to employ the use of fused isolation switches above the worktop to feed each applaince via a flush mounted connection unit at the rear of the
appliance.
Failing this, a large cut out in the rear of the cabinet that would in essence defeat one of the objects of solid backs – preventing access for bugs etc.
As for sockets 150mm above worktops, I have always used this height as the optimum and fully agree with this.
What’s your opinion on this nspark?
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woody
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Hi nspark
I too would like to know where you have got this information.
As far as I am aware the only Building Reg that effects the height of sockets is Part M and this does not refer to kitchens. I use the 150mm rule when installing sockets above a work
surface but that’s a rule of thumb not a regulation.
It does seem a common misconception that the electrical installation regulations have changed since the implementation of Part P but they have not.
BS7671 (16th Edition) was last amended in April 04. It was ok to install a socket in a unit then so it is ok to install them in a unit now.
Cheers
Woody
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nspark
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Sorry to everybody for stating something without giving a
reference for where the information came from.
Woody you are right in stating that the 16th Edition of the wiring regs and BS7671 do not class a kitchen as a special location. But Part P of the building regulations class
bathrooms and kitchens a special location.
My source of information is the Institute of Electrical Engineers web site.
http://www.iee.org
http://www.iee.org/publish/wireregs/Par … mn2004.pdf
If you use the above link, it is a download, but it is ok. Page 12 of the document covers good practice in Kitchens, section H on page 13 covers sockets under worktops.
Plastic surface mounting boxes 47mm deep are available.
This could be fixed onto the wall behind the base unit, and would bridge the gap behind the base unit. With the socket mounted onto a box of this depth, and a hole cut into the back
of the base unit, which could be made good around the box , the socket would appear inside the base unit. A piece of timber could be fitted to the wall and then mount the plastic
backbox onto it , to bring the socket further from the wall.
Manufacturers of wiring accesssories should look at this “problem” for a solution for kitchen fitting.
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woody
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Hi nspark
Thanks for the info. Read the link.
The article refers to ‘good practice’ of an electrical kitchen installation. It is not a requirement of Document Part P. although the IEE might desire sockets fitted to the building
structure, for now, there is nothing wrong with fitting a socket into a base/wall unit. The NICEIC accept it (As long as the installation meets the requirements of BS7671).
When I install a socket in a base unit I’ll use truncking to bring the socket to the front of the unit, much more accessible than a socket fixed to the wall. I install cooker/hob
switches the same. I would consider a cooker/hob switch more a service switch than an emergency switch, but it must be fitted within 2m of the appliance.
Little consideration has been given to integrated appliances in the article.
There is not much difference between fitting a socket into a cupboard and your suggestion of using batten to bring the socket off the wall.
A useful article though.
Cheers
Lee
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timfoley
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Woody, Nspark,
To obtain absolute clarification on this issue, which will have implications for all installers I am inviting the IEE to respond to the points raised in this post.
The anomaly is, having read the document which as Woody states, is not regulatory, yet, the document details a minimum of 5cm above the worktop as the minimum height requirement for
sockets and to me this flies in the face of good practice considering the extra strain it may place on appliance flexes.
Regarding socket location, the guide recommends fixing to the building structure only in reference to washing machines and tumble dryers which is a fair point as accessibility to
these requires greater frequency on the part of the user.
The document also recommends that cooker controls are to be located
in an accessible location outside of cupboards and not in a position that requires the user to reach over a hob or cooker. Again this seems a fair point but only a requirement if a
cooker point is a necessity.
My interpretation is that socket location for fridges, single ovens, microwaves, freezers and dishwashers, hob ignitions are not affected by location in a cupboard but I stand to be
corrected from a higher authority.
Thanks for the contributions so far guys on this interesting and important post and I look forward to hearing your opinions when the reponse is published.
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nspark
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Hi
I am looking forward to the reply from the IEE.
I always follow best practice personally, under the belief that the practice was issued for a good reason by people with more knowledge / information on the subject than myself.
I am sure that a person having a kitchen installed for them or any other type of work, would want their tradesman to follow best practice.
Building contol from a local council, will be looking for best practice being followed, when inspecting an installation under Part P.
What would an insurance company say, if damage was caused by an electrical fire in a kitchen and the sockets were mounted on the base units and not the building structure?
The sixteen edition of the wiring regs is not law , but can be used against you in a court of law. What about best practice?
Who wants to be in a position where they are having to state that they did not follow best practice, because they could not be bothered, costs to much, takes to long, etc.
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woody
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Hi nspark
Best practice as an electrician? Or best practice as a kitchen installer?
Spoke to the NICEIC today. Confirmed what I have already said.
As an NICEIC approved contractor, I would never install a socket that contravenes the 16th.
If there were to be an incident the 16th would be used as the point of reference not ‘best practice‘.
Cheers
woody
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nspark
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Woody
I never said that the sixteen edition was best practice. I feel this is getting personal.
If the fitting of sockets onto the building itself, instead of the base units is best practice, then oviously you are not going to do it and I will. Which is down to personal choice.
But T FOLEY getting clarification from the IEE, will clear the issue for this forum. The IEE must have a reason why they don’t want sockets fitted to base units. Lets hope their
reply will give a reason why.
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woody
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Hi nspark
I apologise if you feel my posts have been personal. They have not meant to be.
Let’s keep things friendly. 
woody
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timfoley
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Thought I may have had to step in as peacemaker there for a
minute boys.
Glad you have found some conflict resolution with added smileys.
Still it’s good to know that the subject stirs up a passion to say your piece and if it allows us to achieve clarification from the law makers then we’ve achieved a goal.
That’s providing they answer and just to update here is a copy of what I forwarded to them.
Someone wrote:
Whilst we applaud the introduction of Part P relating to a greater emphasis of electrical safety in the kitchen, a number of confusing issues have been highlighted
by a recent post on our forum. The link to the post is http://www.kitchensfitted.co.uk/forum/v … .php?t=253
We would be grateful for your response in clarifying the points raised as our website vistors and the tradesmen that visit can only benefit of a greater awareness of the regulations
that will affect them.
Watch this space!
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nspark
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Hi
I have emailed the Office of the deputy prime minister. About this forum topic. I will let you know if I get a reply. You can also download free a copy of Part P from the website.
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/ … 029960.pdf
I think they want the sockets mounted on the building structure and not the base units, due to the fire risk of being mounted on wood , compared to mounting on brick/ plaster etc.
The section that talks about the practice in the 60′s of mounting sockets, light switches on wood, now does not meet the wiring regulations standards for fire risk. Might be the
answer.
This is my idea, and I am prepared to be shot down in flames.
The good news for myself is because my kitchen extension plans were passed before the 1st Jan 2005, part P does not apply to my final inspection by building control
If plans were passed before 1st Jan 2005, you have to start work within three years, otherwise Part P will apply. Three years is the period that building regulation for your plans
stand.
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woody
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Hi nspark
I’m curious, are you an electrician?
If not, what is your trade/profession?
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woody
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Hello again
The ‘wood’ that you refer too is the old wooden mounting boxes they used to use. They no longer meet the meet today’s standards. A socket installed in truncking and a plastic/metal
mounting box would not come into contact with any flammable material. Why a fire risk? There shouldn’t be any sparks flying around.
Consider the B&Q style garden shed, are you allowed to install electrics in them? Yes you are. So why not a kitchen?
The idea of installing to BS7671 is that if a fault at a socket did occur it would disconnect in time to prevent the risk of fire, injury or death.
Part P applies to most domestic work contracted out after 1 Jan 2005. Any work contracted out pre 1 Jan must be completed before March 31 2005. Otherwise part p applies.
As a City & Guilds electrician familiar with BS7671 (IEE 16th Edition) qualified to inspect & test electrical installations -commercial, industrial & domestic. I feel that
I am able to make an informed decision of how and where I install a socket.
Cheers
woody
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