Problem with kitchen company

Lileth,

I’m sorry to hear about your problem and it is one that could easily have been avoided. As for rectifying, then this would, of course, mean raising the cabinets to accommodate the

washing machine and the difficulty factor will arise due to the tiling above the worktop, the end support panels and the plinth, which may all need replacing or in the case of the

tiles, removal.

I assume that the washing machine height was conveyed to or measured by the company prior to installation and that you also informed them of the depth of your finished floor tiling.

It is reasonable to expect that the company requested this from you before fitting the kitchen as it is a basic and standard query with regard to freestanding appliances.

Can you shed any light on the above and whether you have any written acknowledgement of this?

lileth, Q1 how much was your material costs?
Q2 How much was your labour costs?

Personally my opinion here depends on a number of givens

1. The washing machine was available for measure on survey.
2 You clearly defined and conveyed to the company your desire to utilise the existing machine.
3. You detailed the type and discussed the depth of the finished floor with the company.

I have to say that it should always be the responsibility of any company to determine and clarify these points with the customer before installation but you have to remember that the

standard height of units being 870mm is normally enough to accommodate most floor finishes and still allow the fitting of a freestanding appliance if maintained as the minimum height

around the kitchen.

The difference here is that the added application of plywood to strengthen the floor in preparation for tiles, is the cause of the inability to correctly install your machine.

My opinion is that it is the responsibility of the company if the flooring detail was discussed and clarified to the company prior to installation but proving such in a court of law

without any written agreement may prove difficult but on this I bow to the better judgement of a solicitor.

Perhaps an arbitration route may be the best option here and worth consideration to amend and rectify the problem.

Hi lkj

The kitchen experience has been something of a nightmare (as you might have gathered)!.
In a nutshell, we had a very small (about 9′ by 5′ galley kitchen with a third reception room next to it. The building work entailed knocking down the dividing wall, plus removing

a large chimneybreast. We also had a false ceiling with spotlights installed. This building work cost about £5000.
On top of this we had the kitchen installed – fully fitted (apart from washing machine), dishwasher, tumble dryer, granite worktops etc at a cost of about £18000.
We initially employed the company as they stated they were able to do both the building and the kitchen fitting work. We were keen for this as we thought it would be more

straightforward, would reduce stress on us and eliminate the problem of one lot of workmen blaming the other when things go wrong. Everything seemed to go ok initially (apart from

the builders drilling two large holes into the dining room when installing the false ceiling) but then things started to go wrong, namely:
1. The first lot of fitters were sacked after 2 weeks (on the day the kitchen should have been completed) as they had not turned up and basically the kitchen still had at least 3 days

work left. We were originally told the fit would take about 1 week, then a possible week wait for the granite, then a couple of hours of finishing off.
2. the second lot of fitters went well for a couple of days then disappeared for a week, then came back in for a day, then disappeared entirely. Kitchen was still not complete (after

4 weeks of fitting) – still no water and only fridge was working. We were told at this point that there was about 1 days work left.
3. Third fitter was in and out for about 2 weeks – working very slowly. We finally got water and appliances working but fitter had to cut almost entire back panel out of larder unit

to get mechanism to fit. Kitchn company finally said, after 7 weeks of fitting that they have fulfilled their contract and demanded full and final payment.
4. On top of this, building work still needs finishing off after kitchen company sacked the original builder due to the quality of his remedial work on our kitchen (example: instead

of plastering a gap around the kitchen door he stuck a piece of uPVC windo frame over the hole). Only now the kitchen company are saying that they are not responsible for the

building work because we paid the builder separately and it was “just a recommendation” on their part. This, despite the two companies having very similar names and logos, the same

address, telephone number and email address, and the orginal statement that they provide building work.
5. The previously mentioned problem with the height of the whole kitchen.
6. We have sustained damage to the house (window no longer opens, light in cellar broken), a ladder was stolen, and our kettle was broken. Of course the kitchen company are denying

they are responsible and saying it is the builders and we need to chase them for compensation. But, surprise, they are uncontactable!

I could go on (and seem to have done so in some detail anyway!). The fundamental issue is that we paid a premium for a service which we did not receive and I object to being expected

to pay the same after 4 months (we still don’t feel that the kitchen is complete) as we would have done after the 6 weeks we were told the whole project (building and kitchen fit)

would take.

I don’t want to have to go to court but have little faith in being able to resolve this any other way. We have looked at mediation through the trade association but I have some

doubts about how independent they really are.

Hi Tim

thanks for your reply.
To answer your questions:
1. The company are trading as kitchen specialists. We were not recommended them – I registered with an online service, outlining my requirements, and they passed my details on to

local companies. The company did provide pictures of previous installations they had done.
2. The company are probationary members of the KBSA as they have not yet been trading for the full two years.
3. The fitters were allegedly experienced in fitting kitchens although the first fitter did inform me that he had never installed a kitchen of that size before. We were informed that

all the fitters had worked for the company before.
4. Its difficult to say whether we “took issue” with the company. Basically, they decided to sack the first lot of fitters and did immediately replace them. Then, when the second

lot of fitters disappeared, they did find a third reasonably quickly. There seemed little point in making a lot of fuss as they seemed to be trying their best to resolve the problem.
5. Our contract with the company doesn’t really cover any of the issues.
6. The company have stated that they beleive that the installation is satisfactory, they have fulfilled their contract and any problems we have are either down to the builders, or are

not their responsibility.

Their website is very clear on the level of service we could expect from the company and the fitters so, as far as I am concerned, this is part of the contract. It states things

about how professional and reliable the fitters are, and how kitchen installations usually take about 5 days etc.
The company did make the point that its the way the company deals with the problems that is important and, to some extent, I agree. However, the problems that happened were in the

main due to the calibre of staff that she employed and were therefore, in my opinion, largely avoidable. She should not be advertising and offering a service that she is unable to

supply.

We are, at present, trying to sort out an independent survey and are not paying the balance at present. Do you have any advice on whether we should go with the KBSA process or try

and arrange a surveyor separately? I have reservations about the true independence of the KBSA due to some of the content of their website. I am also loath to shell out any more

money for “independent mediation” unless I can be sure it really is independent.
I would hope that some recourse might be available from the Sales of Goods and Services act – i.e. that goods/services need to be fit for purpose, be installed in a reasonable amount

of time, and for a reasonable cost.

Thanks for your advice.

lileth,sorry to hear about the full extent of your

kitchen troubles.
Q1. What was the total finished kitchen area?
Q2. Was the chimney breast on an outside wall or an inside wall?
Q3. Was the chimney breast removed only from the ground floor area?
Q4. If so was the remaining chimney breast supported with steel?

Perhaps, and only a suggestion, you might at this stage talk with a lawyer for an hour – write everything down – to consider the options of retaining the amount outstanding and going

for a small claims court against the builder/kitchen co. If you are pointed in the direction of the High Court then you might consider your position.
Of course, once one has a judgement one then has the difficulty of getting the money. I finally went for peace of mind and wrote the whole thing off.
You know,there’s something to be said for the Mafia when it comes to collecting debts.

lileth, I was trying to get a feel for the extent of the job, often on this standard of work they remove c/breasts without installing steel support.
Theft ,in my limited knowledge, is extremely hard to prove unless the police have been involved. Expert witness surveys can be costly, if it comes to legal action the expert

will have to fill in a legal ” schedule of defects” form and when the other side receive their copy they can fool around and delay the completion of this form literally for years

without any legal consequences for them.
Much of the legal to and fro’ing takes place in a specialist judge’s chambers where you are not allowed. Lawyers only.
The majority of these cases end up with a settlement being reached on the steps of the High Court after the lawyers have raked in thousands.
If you enter the High Court the costs by then could, in this type of claim, have easily reached £20,000. Even if you “win” you still have to collect the costs and claim.

Your lawyers merely take their monies from you.