The length of quartz surfaces

by **Jan3** on Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:17 pm

Hi Tim,
I've noticed in other posts you say that quartz worktops are not seamless and I'd like to know what is the longest length you can have without a join?
Great forum by the way.

Janice.

by **timfoley** on Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:03 am

Janice,
Thank you for the kind words and welcome to our forum.
Slab sizes for most quartz surfaces are generally 3050mm in length x 1380mm width making a fabricated finish size of around 3020-5mm x 1350mm possible.
Any designs above this size will require a joint.

Tim

by **SteUK** on Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:51 pm

Is there a price hit for having, say, an L-shape as one piece? Generally speaking is it cheaper to have this as two pieces?

by **timfoley** on Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:43 pm

Steve,
This can be done yet as the width is then increased the cost would also increase accordingly.
Two seperate pieces prove more cost effective.

Tim

by **pauls** on Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:53 pm

Hi,

I have read somewhere (on the Silestone website?) that Silestone is available up to 3270mm in length. Is this only for some colours and/or from some suppliers? It may seem like I'm being pedantic, but it is important to me as one of the lengths of worktop I need is longer than 3050mm (but shorter than 3270mm). I could have a shorter length by putting the joint the other way, but this would put it on the end of a hob cut-out, which I presume is a no-no.

Thanks

Paul

by **timfoley** on Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:57 pm

Yes Paul certain Silesone colours are available in larger than average size slabs at 3270mm x 1610mm but don't forget that the fabricated size will be less than this and an allowance of around minus 20mm/30mm can be expected dependent on the profile edge of each individual slab.
As I don't have the colours to hand right now, I will post these tmw

Tim

by **pauls** on Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:18 pm

Tim,

Thanks for confirming that longer lengths are avaialable. I look forward to seeign what colours are avaialbale in this length. Is it only Silestone that is avaialble in 3.2+m?

I like the sound of your Quartz Classi crange. This sounds like a good cost-effective solution. Do you laminate the Quartz to MDF yourself? If so, could you put a joint in the quartz in an unobtrustive location (e.g. hob cutout) and put a join in the MDF somewhere else (or get longer length of MDF)?

by **timfoley** on Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:58 pm

Colours avaialable in the larger slab sizes are as follows:
Stellar Negro, Stellar Blanco, Blanco Maple, Brazilian Brown, Marron Jupiter, Ivory Coast, Negro Tebas, Gris Expo, Blanco Zeus, Crema Minerva, Blanco Norte & Haiku.

A number of these slabs do need to be ordered from Spain so if you do require a larger slab then it's good to offer plenty of notice in order to meet your schedule.

As for Classic Quartz, we have decided to put this on the back burner at present. The concept, in comparison with the thin quartz and granites that are available as fitting over existing worktops, is one that I believe was workable but there have been a few glitches, more of a logistical nature, that caused me concern and until we are certain that fixes are in place we have decided not to offer the surface at present.
If these do get resolved then I believe the method of fabricating an 8mm to an MDF substrate is a viable cost alternative and we would never offer a surface that relies on existing tops to form it's sub core.
I will update should our concerns be put to bed

by **pauls** on Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:56 am

The solution I went for in the end was a 7mm quartz overlay on 30mm moisture-resistant MDF. In this way you can hide the joins in the sink and hob cut-outs (as I suggested should be possible in my previous post). Standard quartz solutions would have needed 2 full-lengths joins in the worktop.

The other advantage of this solution is that you can have 40mm or deeper worktop (even over 100mm I am told) with no join through the thickness. (With standard quartz anything over 30mm requires an unsightly join part way down).

I put the 30mm MDF substrate in myself, and the quartz was overlaid by **************** They did a great job, and the worktop looks fantastic. I recommend them very highly.

by **timfoley** on Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:22 pm

Paul,
I've removed the link from your previous post as it has always been the policy of our forum not to allow external links except under certain circumstances. One good example is when a designer or installer contributes regularly to the forum in assisting visitors with a fitting or design issue.
Secondly, we have no means of determining the quality of goods or service of any company that is linked to without our knowledge or consent.
The third point on this particular subject and most importantly from our point of view is that I do not agree that thin quartz is a viable or cost effective alternative to 30mm slab surfaces. After undertaking price exercises I quickly discovered that thin quartz, although around 10% less expensive than the 30mm quartz surfaces we offer, the feedback I had from clients who had this installed in the method you describe was far from favourable, one particular client detailing the following - "The biggest problem I can see at the moment is that both the Window sill and the Worktop on top of the ovens are warping due to the expansion/contraction rates of the different materials"
For these reasons we decided not to offer the surfaces to our visitors and a surface's true durability and resilience can really only be measured over a long period of time hence our offering Breton quartz surfaces and Corian, both tried and tested over many years.
I may be wrong here and am open to persuasion from those who have had thin quartz fitted in this way but only after a period of perhaps seven years without any issues. As you can appreciate, when a client such as the one detailed above, conveys issues immediately after installation then we could not offer the surface to our visitors.

As for the worktop depth and unsightly joins, mitred downturns are often fabricated to thicknesses of 60 to 100mm using 30mm slabs so it is incorrect to say this isn't possible and the joint appears almost seamless just as it would with a thin quartz. Hob and sink cutouts will not hide a joint but will only minimize it's length so again this is not a USP for thin quartz alone as the same can be achieved with 30mm Quartz
I'm glad to hear that you're happy with your surfaces Paul and I'm sorry that we are unable to include the link but maybe in 6-7 years time when the company you hired have built up a good reputation for quality work and products with great customer feedback we'd reconsider.

Tim

by **pauls** on Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:23 pm

Tim,

You raise several interesting points.

I am surprised (having looked at the Young's Modulus and Coefficient of Thermal Expansion for the material used on my worktop) that your client experienced such problems. You infer (by stating that you only offer Breton quartz and Corian) that your client's material may not be a Breton quartz? I can confirm that the material used on my worktop is made on a Breton machine in the same manner as the 30mm material offered by the same manufacturer. It's the same material, only thinner.

I am also intrigued that you can join 30mm quartz in sink and hob cut-outs. I accept that the join is not completely hidden, but the fact that the length is tiny compared to a full length joint, and that there is no break in the front face of the worktop, and that your eye is drawn away from the joint by the sink/hob, all conspire to making a far more attractive finish. All the traditional installers I talked to told me that this type of joint is not possible. Indeed, when I asked in an earlier post to confirm that this could not be achieved in 30mm quartz you did not refute it. If you had done then, you might have got the job!

I would urge you to look again at some well-installed 7mm Breton quartz. You would be very welcome to come and look at mine if you wish.

by **timfoley** on Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:57 pm

Paul,

I inferred wrong then Paul, it was made on a Breton Machine I was merely stating that the quartz we offer are all 30mm Bretonstones and given that price exercises we undertook resulted only in an average 12% saving in cost i.e. a £1500 x 30mm worktop design would cost £1320 in 8mm thin quartz, this represented poor value when comparing a quartz that was over four times less the thickness, less resilient and more prone to issues of a nature that does not exist with 30mm slabs.

I'm certain that your worktops look good yet all quartz surfaces require joints longer than the slab length and mitred downturns are achieved regularly to hide the joints of 30mm or 20mm projects we undertake.

I would re-consider our decision only if the surfaces were priced more competitively, that they offered a similar 10 year manufacturers Guarantee as with all our existing worktops and that the method of bonding and fabrication was improved. After a period of time that offered good client feedback as has been the case with 30mm quartz, I would then seriously consider selling them on kitchensfitted.co.uk with an affordable national fitting and template rate.

by **pauls** on Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:05 pm

Hi Tim,

I'm still a little confused about the joints that are possible in 30mm worktop. I can understand that you can mitre the front edges in the same way as 7mm quartz (but with more effort), but I am still not clear whether or not you can put a joint through a hob or sink cut-out. With 7mm quartz you have a lap joint with the substrate giving the strength. (I used 30mm Aluminum channel to reinforce the substrate just to be on the safe side, but it was probably a bit OTT). However, with 30mm worktop, you would have to rely on a couple of very small but joints, and no room to put in a bolted connection. Or have I (and the other installers I taked to) missed something?

by **timfoley** on Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:40 pm

Paul,
Are you an installer of thin quartz or am I just getting the wrong end of the stick from your previous post? It would be interesting to hear about the manufacturers guarantee that is offered by your providers
If a substrate providess the strength for a thin quartz then sufficient horizontal support under a solid 30mm quartz provides similar, the difference being a worktop over 4 times thicker.
As for the capability of worktop bolts, I really don't see this as advatage given that a quartz surface has entirely different properties to a laminate surface and it's strength is provided by the surface area of the bonding agent applied which is again 4 tmes that of a thin quartz.
Regardless of the above, joints are visible in both thin quartz and 30mm, yet should a seamless finish be the main criteria for clients then there's always Corian as an option.
My belief is, as I stated earlier, that value for money and cost efficiency is better provided by solid 30mm or 20mm slabs and I do think it's difficult to come up with a logical argument that states any different.

by **pauls** on Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:43 pm

Tim,

No, I am not an installer, just a regular punter - my comment on bolts should show that (oops!).

I'm still interested in the answer to my question about putting a joint in a sink or hob cut-out. Can this be acheived in 30mm quartz? Is a but-joint 30mm x ~50mm really strong enough?

The length of quartz surfaces

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